MGS - First off Joe thank you so
much for taking the time to speak with us.
JN
- No problem. I'm honored to be featured on such a unique,
tone-centric website.
MGS
- First off for those that don't know can you give us a history
of how you got into the musical instrument biz?
JN
- Ok, here's the long version! I started playing in 1980,
my first year in college, and shortly thereafter purchased
my first electric guitar. It was a used Japanese Epiphone
Crestwood ET-290 cherryburst, wish I still had it. Within
one hour of owning it, I had it completely dissected, right
down to the last screw. As a kid, I used to build those flying
wood airplanes, and I was a professional bicycle mechanic
since I was 16 years old. So ripping the guitar apart was
no problem. I was fascinated and knew right then I had to
be in the guitar business one way or another.
What
followed was several years of intense information gathering.
Back then there were no instructional videos, no local guitar
shows, and very few books. Hands-on was the only way to go,
so I'd hit the music stores and junk shops and buy their crap...
if it was under $30, it was mine. I had piles of Japanese
necks, bodies, pickups, and parts that I'd assemble into mutant
guitars. I would try odd combinations just to see what would
happen. One of my favorites had a fully-hollow Aria ES330
body, Cort strat neck, Bigsby trem, Dimarzio bridge humbucker
and no-name neck single-coil. The pickups were out-of-phase
with each other, but the thing sounded amazing! If you really
want to learn about guitars, you gotta get destructive...
preferably on cheap instruments.
I
also used to hang out at Pete Moreno's repair shop in Kalamazoo.
He's one of the best, and has a very interesting shop. He
worked at Gibson, and when they closed he bought a bunch of
stuff at the factory yard sale. He had stacks of unfinished
flame-top Les Paul bodies and necks; build-it-yourself Explorer
and Flying V kits with real Gibson bodies and necks, for like
$200. I bought a full box Gibson pickup coils off him for
$5... just insane stuff. Anyhow, the first time I went there
was to get a quote on a guitar refret. I couldn't afford it,
so I asked him how to do it. He hammers one fret in, hands
me a roll of fret wire, and tells me to go home and do it.
I come back the very next morning, with the guitar completely
re-fretted, and he's looking at me like "man, this kid
is nuts". So over the next few years, he'd help me out
if I couldn't do something on my own.
After
I got my Industrial Design degree, I headed out to Phoenix
and attended the Roberto-Venn School of Luthiery. It was a
3-month course, 40 hours a week, studying traditional luthiery
techniques for acoustic and electric guitars, as well as wiring
and pickup winding. After that, I returned to Kalamazoo and
worked out of my basement, specializing in repair, custom
guitars, and pickup winding.
In
1992, I moved the operation into a Detroit area storefront,
were I expanded into sales of used and vintage guitars and
amps. This was an incredible learning experience, as I played
through and analyzed every single piece of equipment that
came through that shop, whether it was a vintage Telecaster
or a solidstate Gorilla amp. The day-to-day buying and selling
also forced me to study vintage guitars and amps in detail,
as far as history, features and value.
In 1993 we introduced the J.F. Naylor Special Design 50 speaker,
one of the earliest 12" Jensen-style, upgrade replacement
speakers. In 1994 we closed the retail and repair side of
the business, and introduced the Naylor amplifier line. In
1996, due to differences in business philosophies, I sold
Naylor to my business partner, who ran the business into the
ground after about a year. We produced the first Reverend
guitar in early '97, and have been going strong ever since.
MGS
- I remember Naylor amps as the first "boutique"
amp out there to my knowledge at the time. I rememeber seeing
the local bands Slam Circuis <Solid Frog> and Sugarbuzz
using the amps. They are still highly sought after. How did
that all get started?
JN
- It all evolved from the music store. We had successfully
introduced the Naylor speaker, and I was getting burned-out
on the retail/repair side of the business. Kendrick, THD and
Matchless were already in business, so we figured if they
can do it, we can to! I already had a background in design
and manufacturing, so we decided to go for it. Our amp repair
guy, Dan Russell (Blitz Amps, 810-772-4458) was doing all
these outrageous amp mods, so we commissioned him to design
the amp circuit to our liking. We also later worked with Guy
Hedrick (www.guytron.com),
who designed the circuit for the reverb-equipped series of
Naylor amps.
Our first model, the Superdrive 60 head, was possibly the
first high-gain, Marshall style, point-to-point wired boutique
amp on the market. It's still the most highly sought model,
I've seen them recently sell used for more than the original
list price.
MGS
- Do you have any old Naylor amps at home or at the shop from
the old days?
JN
- I have a Superdrive 60 head here right now that belongs
to a friend of mine, that used to belong to Mike Cross from
Sponge. It's brings back memories, that amp was on MTV, Letterman,
etc.
Unfortunately, Naylor was ahead of it's time. Back then, selling
a $1500 head was no easy task, especially a high-gain one,
because the original boutique amp market was mostly traditional
blues guys who had no interest in a master volume.
MGS
- The new line of Reverend amps look great. Can you tell us
about them? They look very versatile.
JN
- After Naylor, I vowed I would never get back in the amp
business, because Naylor essentially failed as a business.
So out of the blue, one of my sales reps tells me he knows
this guy who designs tube amps, and has overseas connections
to get components built at a reasonable cost (our amps are
assembled and tested in our facility, using American and imported
components). It turns out the designer was Dennis Kager. Dennis
was head of repair service and quality control at Ampeg in
the mid-sixties, and was involved with design as well. He
owned Sundown amps in the eighties, and now operates Central
Jersey Music Services, one of the country's largest amp service
centers. He's also a consultant/designer for hire, who's worked
with all the big-name companies. Dennis and I hit it off real
well, and I figured if I could build a good tube amp at a
price the average person could afford, I'd give it another
shot.
The basic concept is simple... make an all-tube design with
the simplicity, reliabilty, and tonal purity of a single-channel
amp, but make it affordable, versatile, and light weight.
Our secret weapon is the 3-position Schizo switch, which changes
the pre-amp gain and EQ for three distinct voicings: US which
is Fendery, UK which can do a good Vox, Marshall or Hiwatt
imitation, and LO-FI which is reminescent of vintage Supro
and Silvertone type amps. If you know how to tweak the controls,
you can really nail a variety of vintage tones. We have excellent
sound samples up on the
website, that really demonstrate the possibilities.
All
our amps have a 1/3 power reduction switch, Electro-Harmonix
tubes, Accutronics reverb, and super-light neodymium magnet
speakers... our 60 watt 112 combo weighs 32 pounds! I think
it's the lightest 60 watt, all-tube 112 on the market.
I'm
really into single-channel amps right now. There's less stuff
to go wrong... and what if you don't like the second channel
that you just paid for? If you really need to footswitch,
there's now an endless variety of high quality pedals with
every flavor of distortion imaginable. Our amps are very pedal-friendly,
especially in US mode. On the other hand, if you prefer to
simply ride your guitar's volume control for clean and dirty,
they'll do that to.
MGS
- What was your inspiration for the design of the Reverend
guitar?
JN
- Right after I got out of Roberto-Venn, I bought an exceptionally
great sounding Silvertone 1448 guitar, the single lipstick
pickup, amp-in-case model. I originally bought it for the
cool case, but was shocked when I plugged in the guitar. I
even remember my roomate saying, "If you build me a custom
guitar, it has to sound is good as that one", and he
was a keyboard player! It just sounded great, even after I
routed it for a humbucker and added a tremolo!
The masonite and pine Silvertone defied conventional logic,
and I wanted to crack the code. I began building bodies out
of non-conventional materials such as aluminum, formica (phenolic
laminate), Masonite (hardboard), and various plastics and
rigid foams. I once built a semi-hollow body with a center
block of rigid foam and balsa wood, with a thin aluminum top
and back... it had so much resonance and treble harmonics,
it sounded like a 12-string! It's amazing what you can do
to the tone with alternative materials and modifed internal
body structures.
After
about 10 years of experimentation, I ended up with the Reverend
High Resonance Body Design, which was granted a U.S. Patent
in 2000. The design allows us to manufacture a body that consistently
produces the resonance of a semi-hollow, but with the attack
and sustain of a solid-body. It also eliminates conventional
body painting procedures, which lowers my labor costs, and
in turn allows me to sell a pro-quality, USA made guitar for
under a $1000. It's hard to verbally explain the construction,
but there's a good cutaway
view at our website.
MGS
- For those not familiar with Reverend tell us what makes
the guitars different than what's been on the market for 50
plus years.
JN
- Mostly the patented body construction, the combination of
materials and the internal structure are unique. It's unusual
to have this much resonance in a semi-hollow body this small.
It's also unusual to have so much resonance, with great sustain
and attack.
Otherwise, the rest of the guitar is fairly traditional, with
aesthetic and functional elements borrowed from classic designs,
and then tweaked to my liking. You gotta keep in mind, by
1958, the Strat, Tele, Les Paul, ES335, Flying V, Explorer,
and all the essential Gretsch guitars already existed! Much
of the heavy lifting had already been done.
MGS
- Lets also touch on the 2005 guitars. This new pickup 
bass
contour knob looks very cool.
JN
- I'm very proud of the 2005 line. We built the first Reverend
guitar in '97, and have continually improved the same basic
design since. So the 2005's represent a very highly evolved
instrument, with 8 years worth of tried-and-true refinements
in construction, hardware, and electronics.
Although the Reverend design was inspired by the lowly Silvertone
guitar, our guitars are designed for the professional or serious
hobbyist looking for something visually and tonally unique.
We use high-end appointments such as Sperzel locking tuners,
custom-designed pickups, string-thru-body bridge, dual-action
truss rod, graphite nut, stainless steel neck screws, and
custom-designed circuits.
The new Bass Contour is a passive bass roll-off, which can
go from a slight bass cut, to totally re-voicing the pickups.
Passive bass roll-off controls for guitar are nothing new.
What's unique is that our control taper and component values
were specifically selected, to allow re-voicing of the pickup,
not just simple bass reduction. And of course there's a few
sneaky-tweaky things I did, that I'm not free to discuss at
this time.
You can back off the Bass Contour just a little bit, to tighten
up the low end. Or you can roll back further, which reduces
the gain and thins the tone for a cleaner, brighter and more
percussive sound. It'll make a full-size humbucker sound like
a single-coil... I think it sounds better and is more usefull
than any coil-tap I've ever heard. It will also re-voice a
P-90 to sound like a Strat pickup. The cool thing is, because
it's a variable knob, you can create your own hybrid tones
by using settings in-between the two extremes.
MGS
- I noticed Rick Vito now has a signature model guitar. How
did that come about?
JN
- Well, Rick has used Reverend guitars since '99. For those
who don't know, he's probably the top sideman in the biz,
having worked with Bonnie Raitt, Fleetwood Mac, Bob Seger,
Jackson Browne, Todd Rundgren, John Mayall, Hank Williams
Jr., John Fogerty, Roger McGuinn, and many others. His best
known track is that bad-ass slide solo in Bob Seger's "Like
a Rock".
When he's not working with the big-shooters, Rick
records his own solo blues CDs. It just so happens that
his upcoming release is about 90% Reverend guitar, in particular
the P-90 equipped Slingshot model. When I heard that, I proposed
we collaborate on a Vito Slingshot. I figured we'd co-promote
it along with his new CD, and we'd both benefit. We were already
sandblasting Hawaiian scenes on to aluminum bodies, so we
decided to do a similar thing with his artwork, which has
a very New Orleans/voodoo vibe. The original Slingshot I built
Rick years ago had over-wound P-90's, so we incorporated that
into the Vito model, as well as the new Bass Contour control.
For
the new CD, he's also using our Kingsnake amp and a Dumble
amp that Jackson Browne gave to him... he thinks it's the
one Stevie Ray Vaughan used on his first record, which was
recorded in Jackson Browne's studio. Rick claims the Kingsnake
holds it's own next to the Dumble, which of course I was elated
to hear!
Rick
will make an appearance at the Fall
Philly Guitar Show, June 25-26. He does a very cool slide
clinic, which is educational and entertaining... his feel,
touch, and phrasing are spine-chilling. We hope to bring him
to several of the bigger guitar shows this year.
MGS
- We would like to give you props for being a USA company.
It seems a lot of the bigger builders out there are outsourcing
close to 100 percent of their products. Is it possible to
do a little outsourcing, like say a more affordable Reverend
guitar made in Korea, but the keep the core biz and manufacturing
in the US?
JN
- That's exactly what we plan on doing. We will keep making
the USA guitars as our flagship line, and we plan on introducing
a Korean-made line late this year. These will be solid-body
and semi-hollow guitars using conventional wood-body construction.
There's
a couple key things to a great import product... the company
bringing them in has to have some design chops, and has to
be willing to enforce quality control. I have personally designed
and spec'd out everything on these guitars, and all the guitars
will be set-up and QC'd here at our Detroit facility. We're
not talking about cheesy Les Paul knock-offs, these will be
Reverend pedigree all the way! Totally high performance, very
consistent, and with some unique features.
MGS
- What's the biggest hurdle in being an American company and
staying strong?
JN
- The hard part about running a business in the USA is the
high costs... labor rates, taxes, health insurance, etc. You
always have to think about efficiency, producing something
fast, but without compromising quality. And the marketing
is just as important as the product. You have to know how
to present your goods to the right group of customers, along
with an appropriate product/company image. Don't even think
about getting in this business without some marketing and
sales background, the guitar gear biz is brutally fickle and
unforgiving.
MGS-
I remember the Kid Rock ads with Reverend guitars. Did he
bring his posse with him? When you met him did you say, "
My name is JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOE NAYLOR! BAWWITTABAADADANGDADANDIGGYDIGGY"?
Sorry, I hope you can appreciate the sense of humor. Tell
us how that came about.
JN
- Dude, that's exactly what I said! Then we downed a couple
fortys of Ol' Mil' and burned a few blunts. Just kidding!...
it was actually Strohs.
His
lead guitarist, Kenny Olson, endorsed Naylor amps and Reverend
guitars. Well, Kenny got a big money deal out of Fender, so
he dropped us like a rock. I think he felt kinda bad about
it, so he told Kid Rock that he should be playing Reverend.
Kid Rock called me, and explained how they're gonna be this
huge group, and that he's all pro-Detroit, and that I should
hook him up...well, the rest his history. I think he has a
Gibson deal now, but I'm not complaining... the guy took great
care of us for a couple years, gave us a lot of exposure,
and he's even holding a Reverend on the cover of "History
of Rock".
MGS
- Why were the Drivetrain OD pedals discontinued? They had
quite a following. Are you still working with Bob Weil?
JN
- It became no longer feasible from a business standpoint.
Our minimum production quantities were very high, and they
weren't selling fast enough, so it became money sitting on
the shelf for too long. I'd rather invest that money into
another part of the business. In the last couple years, everybody
and their brother got into the pedal business. Drivetrain
sales dropped radically... there's just so many overdrives
on the market now, and a lot of good ones.
I'm not doing any projects with Bob now, but we do sell all
his Visual Sound pedals, which I'm real happy with. Maybe
we'll do the Drivetrain again if the timing looks right, and
if I can get it done in much smaller quantities.
MGS-
I know you have been back and forth on the direct vs. dealer
issue over the years. Where do you stand on it now?
JN
- We originally had dealers, and that grew to about 100 dealers.
We had a sales rep company that would sign-up just about anybody.
Our big mistake was that we didn't control territories, pricing,
store inventory or the internet sales. Stores would have one
Reverend guitar, and call themselves a dealer. Internet stores
would sell them for $10 over cost. There's still over $10,000
owed to me from ex-dealers who bounced checks and never paid
me!
Consequently,
sales to dealers dropped off, because Reverend no longer was
a priority line in most of these stores, just a name to have
in case somebody wanted to special order one. So in 2002,
we dropped all the dealers, fired the sales rep company, and
went direct. In retrospect, I should have kept the 10 or so
dealers that actually supported the line, but at that time
I was frustrated and wanted nothing to do with dealers.
Fast
forward to 2005, and we're signing-up dealers again. Only
this time, it's a totally different program! We are more selective
about who we bring onboard. We want medium-size stores who
are going to stock the product, and have a high level of knowledge
and service. In return, we give the store an exclusive territory
which is the total area within one hour's driving distance.
We don't sell into that territory, and they don't sell out
of it.
There's
also price consistency... dealers sell at the same "Direct"
price shown at our website. Customers don't have to worry
about getting ripped-off, and the dealer's profit margin is
protected. It's a win-win situation for everybody involved.
And I know it's working... the 9 dealers I currently have
are selling more Reverend product than the 100 dealers I had
before!
MGS
- Ok it's time to sound off. Lots of folks in the gear community
will read this. Think of it as your State of the Union address.
Tell it like it is Joe. Also a special thanks.
JN
- Only buy products from small, cool companies. Don't ask
why...just DRINK THE COOLAID!
